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theartist

Strange "Wave" Phenomenon on the Sun

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A strange wave phenomenon is going on right now on the sun.  It is observed in multiple wavelengths as a string of small bright-points up in the corona, but its imprint, if one looks carefully, can also be seen down on the photosphere.

1146123449_193withannotatedwave.thumb.jpg.f46288843524f674962c14af0ca3a15a.jpg193.thumb.jpg.c4d7f859246d1bead3f596a1c196c2fb.jpg94.thumb.jpg.8c610492e370bd5c411c545a3ad53756.jpg335.thumb.jpg.6a32d23f421091bef760762b09b109d7.jpg211.thumb.jpg.27f35111f961a08858d93049da7ad0b7.jpg304.thumb.jpg.1eda49b96d90e2994709ab3356f17e45.jpg1700.thumb.jpg.1a63a8a5063bed6b71f0a70f5b83308d.jpg

 

Have any of you seen this before?  Do you have an explanation?  I kind of sense this is a clue that might possibly challenge some conventional dynamo-theory models.  Does it possibly suggest 'near surface' magnetic imprints on the photosphere can be induced from disturbance in the solar atmosphere? 

We know from helioseismology that there is possibly (what is termed) a 'jet-stream' flow (though quite slow) below the photosphere, but per my (albeit limited) understanding, that is a long-standing flow-pattern developed over multiple years throughout the solar cycle. I also don't think (but I'm not sure) current helioseismology theories explain the development of this particular wavy pattern we are observing. Here is a quickly developed "wave" pattern extending clear across the observed solar disk, imprinted on the photosphere and up into the corona.  

Are there any experienced solar physicists in the house that would like to offer their opinion?

If I'm the first person to call this pattern out (i.e., a 'first' discovery), does the phenomenon get named after me, like comet discoverers get the comet named after them?😀  If so, let's call it "the solar-artist's wave"😊

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The following references may (or may not) not be (somewhat) applicable:

1.  "Solar and Stellar Nonradial Oscillations, Wave Propagation and Heating of the Upper Atmosphere", L. Paterno (1988)

2.  "The quest for the solar g modes", Appourchaux, et.al. (2010)

3.  "Gigantic Waves That Control Earth's Weather Have Once Again Been Detected Roaring Across The Sun""Solar Rossby waves have very small amplitudes and periods of several months, thus they are extremely difficult to detect,"..."All in all, we find large-scale waves of vorticity on the Sun that move in the direction opposite to rotation. That these waves are only seen in the equatorial regions is completely unexpected."

Edited by theartist

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🤔A main takeaway is that this wavy string of bright-points we are observing today is something that may be so rare of a chance occurrence that you may not see it manifest like this again in your lifetime.  🤓

The conditions of a very quiet sun in a deep solar minimum are a likely enabler.

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Folks, I dunno what is going on here, but we are seeing something similar again today, three days later, manifesting at a lower latitude:

889371726_BIGWAVE3dayslater_1024.thumb.jpg.871cd37d1a34944c245e63fcab465902.jpg1261048666_3dayslater_1024.thumb.jpg.dc3f6cfdcc0c75c09d62807650f7a593.jpg1084978617_3dayslater_0094.thumb.jpg.cb12e2b05e62aa8b908dc630ec3d9898.jpg50479134_3dayslater_0211.jpg.ca3d99c55fbe042e9533465ef5b6c29b.jpg842096902_3dayslater_0193.jpg.3ea253c0c321eeadd552f54d1a9c14b3.jpg

Edited by theartist

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One can now see the ring of bright-points extending around on the east side of the sun in the STEREO-A imagery:

1179511682_stereoring_annotated.thumb.jpg.d06241d735464e618cf4443c01655cf0.jpg1140959213_stereoring_180530_n7euA_195.thumb.jpg.20b6c9aab04227acaa20ca51f66da709.jpg

 

I would not be surprised if this ring of bright-points completely encircles our star. Surely this phenomenon we are currently observing has something to do with the quiescent state of our sun in the throes of a deep solar minimum.🤓   

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Is it not interesting that the current "Line-of Sight Ecliptic-Plane Field Plot"  model is similar to the wave of bright-points observed in the above imagery?🤓

1461268610_ScreenShot2019-11-27at6_34_59AM.png.2c0137a2ee3f5df33b8d50dc60748917.png

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For comparison, here is what a model looks like during solar maximum:

2106369671_ScreenShot2019-11-27at6_45_06AM.thumb.jpg.0bf8b5da3e73ae029008b02b99b016ec.jpg

So did a similar behavior manifest during the last solar minimum, and if so, where in the timeline?  🤔

Let's go back and look at the model, shall we?😀

(to be continued)

Edited by theartist

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We received an anonymous response to this topic:

Quote

False information. Solar maximum is not solar minimum. All the sun is doing is getting ready for SC25 to cycle upward. those wavy bands of loops are not a sign of a solar deep minimum. It's just natures state of progression. Noone will know the secrets of it's dynamo forever.

I don't see any strange things on the solar images. The spots are nothing out of the ordinary, the line you say they form is rather coincidence and doesn't reflect on magnetogram. brighter zones on the disk are more often at the line of where sunspots may form or where sunspots are so it's normal to mee that there are some bright spots near the equator as we are in solar minimum. Once SC25 gets through we'll see spots higher and lost likely some bright spots without regions in the higher latitude. 

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Vancanneyt, there are two messages here and I'll take them in order.

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

False information. Solar maximum is not solar minimum. 

🙄What is "false" about what I presented?  I took the images right off of SDO.  

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

Solar maximum is not solar minimum.

🙄Was the person sending this message of sober mind?  Where did I state, or even suggest that "solar maximum is solar minimum"?  C'mon Vancanneyt, you didn't ask 'anonymous' what they were referring to here?

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

All the sun is doing is getting ready for SC25 to cycle upward.

🙄 What is the point of this statement?  We all know we are eventually going up into SC25, and we are currently in the SC24/25 transition epoch. So.....?  

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

those wavy bands of loops are not a sign of a solar deep minimum.

So this is the problem, eh?  

  1. First of all, regardless of what those "loops" indicate, we are absolutely, incontrovertibly, already in a deep solar minimum.  I direct 'anonymous' to a whole host of threads I've started on this forum for the evidence (for example, this one,  "Synoptic Magnetograms; SC24 Minimum Forecasting", particularly evaluating Table 1. and Table 2. in that thread, or this one F10.7cm Solar Minimum Analysis, where F10.7cm is compared between cycles:).  I can also direct 'anonymous' to a host of scientific literature in agreement with this fact.
  2. Since we ARE in a deep solar minimum, the question arises as to whether this 'rare' (my view) occurrence of wavy bright-points extending around the circumference of the sun is related to being in a deep solar minimum.  My theory is that "YES, it has a lot to do with it."

So I ask whether 'anonymous', or Vancanneyt Sander actually spent some time looking at the "Line-of Sight Ecliptic-Plane Field Plot" models (https://gong2.nso.edu/products/scaleView/view.php?configFile=configs/pfssModels.cfg&productIndex=5(I provided a link earlier) in order to:

  1. get a feel for how they change with the change of the photospheric magnetic-structures on the sun; 
  2. compare the behavior of these models in the current solar minimum with the previous SC23/24 transition (which ALSO was a very deep solar minimum)?
On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

it's normal to mee that there are some bright spots near the equator as we are in solar minimum.

Yes, but I suggest it is NOT typical to see such a long line of bright points, in a rather flat wave, coincidentally extending for a considerable portion of the sun's circumference. That was the hypothesis.  Have you ever seen that before, was the opening question to the thread?  

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

Once SC25 gets through we'll see spots higher and lost likely some bright spots without regions in the higher latitude.

This is obvious and has nothing to do with what I contend is an observance of a "relatively rare" solar phenomenon.  I contend there are a couple of things that both have to happen, in conjunction, for the occurrence of this phenomenon:

  1. The magnetic state of the sun has to be very "tranquil" and "hemispherically balanced", and
  2. Even with those two conditions resulting from a deep solar minimum, the corona still has to cooperate to produce a string of bright-points at considerable distance along the magnetic polarity line.
On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

Noone will know the secrets of it's dynamo forever.

This is also an interesting statement from "anonymous"; in the context of their other statements, can Vancanneyt Sander  or "anonymous" please elaborate further what they are driving at?

-------------------------------       -------------------------------       -------------------------------       

Over the last couple of days, I had started looking through the literature in order to better understand what these models were representing, to see if there was more than a "coincidence" with the bright-points.  While I'm still looking for a paper of interest I had come across in that search, here is another applicable paper:

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984PhDT.........5H/abstract  "The solar wind in the heliosphere is organized into large regions in which the magnetic field has a component either toward or away from the sun. The model predicts the location of the current sheet separating these regions. Near solar minimum, in 1976, the current sheet lay within a few degrees of the solar equator having two extensions north and south of the equator. Soon after minimum the latitudinal extent began to increase." 

The idea is that possibly these models will provide a clue as to where the Solar Minimum Nadir is temporally located.

 

-------------------------------       -------------------------------       -------------------------------    

On 11/28/2019 at 10:41 AM, theartist said:

I had started looking through the literature in order to better understand what these models were representing

The following statement stuck out from the Babcock paper titled, "The Sun's Polar Magnetic Field":  "During the minimum phase of the sunspot cycle...polar fields have extended on rare occasions nearly to the solar equator."

-------------------------------       -------------------------------       -------------------------------    

On 11/28/2019 at 10:41 AM, theartist said:
On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

Solar maximum is not solar minimum.

🙄Was the person sending this message of sober mind?  Where did I state, or even suggest that "solar maximum is solar minimum"?  C'mon Vancanneyt, you didn't ask 'anonymous' what they were referring to here?

and...

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Vancanneyt Sander said:

Noone will know the secrets of it's dynamo forever.

After reflecting on these postings some more, I'm thinking possibly that english is not the primary language of "anonymous".  I'm now (guessing) that what they were trying to say, is that "regardless of what happens in solar minimum, it will not necessarily be reflected at solar maximum, and no one will ever be able to figure out the secrets of the dynamo". Such thoughts are founded on the idea that the sun's magnetic behavior is totally chaotic, with no discernible trends from minimum-to-maximum, let alone from cycle-to-cycle.  On the contrary, scientists (based on decades of observations) have long rejected this view.  One term scientists use in discussing the solar cycle is 'quasi-periodic', with quasi-periodicity manifested in attributes like strength and magnitude (reflected in the sunspot number proxy).  But depending on the context, 'quasi-periodic' is not very definitive, without getting into the specifics of a wide array of implications.

Edited by theartist
Added the link to the models.

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Just wondering if any data is available for the milky ways galactic magnetic pattern. I believe it is not poo pood to believe there are very dense black holes at the center of most galaxies and which have magnetic forces extending vastly over there galactic domains. Our small star must somehow be subject to some of these magnetic (gravitational) forces galactic center forces and behave accordingly?  :ph34r:

 

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Hi noobsauce, welcome to the forum.

On 12/2/2019 at 5:20 PM, noobsauce said:

Our small star must somehow be subject to some of these magnetic (gravitational) forces galactic center forces and behave accordingly?

Which is it, magnetic or gravitational forces?  Possibly "somehow", but on what order-of-magnitude, and on what timescale, relative to the electromagnetic perturbations and gravitational forces generated within our own solar system (some questions you might consider to guide your theoretical research into the matter)? 

Consider (per this source) the strongest structured magnetic fields of spiraling galaxies in the interarm regions are ~15μG (1.5nT), while magnetic fluctuations within our sun's solar wind at 1 AU are +/- 10-20nT [although the 27-day averages of the Interplanetary Magnetic Field are less than 10nT (per OMNIweb)] :

1327693416_ScreenShot2019-12-05at6_00_19AM.thumb.png.274fb1b9e47a84f354bdbd811539bdfc.png

(I dropped a list of various other order-of-magnitude magnetic field strengths on page 2 of the thread titled,  F10.7cm Solar Minimum Analysis.)

Edited by theartist

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TY Artist

I read articles you linked which show the constantly changing field in Teslas. I liked the portion which shows affect of Tesla field strength on “magnetosphere.” Is this an instant change or is it latent? I did not know that Tesla had his own unified field theory which attempts explanation of relation between gravity and electromagnetic forces. I believe Tesla earns some street cred in his theory. If Tesla is correct then the constant field changes measured in Tesla are relative to gravity and vice versa. Out star cant be an exemption to the rule. Considering the earth magnetosphere is so easily manipulated by our star, what of the maipulation of the heliosphere by the MW galactic core? Dont mean to sound too crazy and my name is in relation to my understanding but sometimes you have to listen to the little people.

 

 

BB4C9A75-721E-4071-98AE-86FC512A7477.jpeg

What is the net gravity effect on gravity (our star) for change/Tesla (heliosphere/heliopause) from galactic core and can this account for changes in our star? 

A86A56E9-CA11-4B0C-9CEB-8BD9C61BBBD0.jpeg

DFE233A7-F5D9-4F3C-A508-C1C46E3D3992.jpeg

From this can a theory be inferred that our stars Solar output is inverse to galactic core field strength (teslas) such that; Our star has decreased output during periods of high Tesla output from galactic core and increased output during periods of low Tesla output from the galactic core.

 Our star would then be kept in check (during solar minimums) and not allowed to act out when the MW galactic core Tesla output is above a certain output and vice versa our star begins its solar max cycle when the tesla strength from the galactic core is low? 

Thats a reach for sure.

 

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